The Common Good Economy: Rethinking economic governance (with Francine Lacqua)

What's going on in the global economy that doesn't feel right?

Francine Lacqua

Mariana Mazzucato

We fail to achieve ambitious goals (SDGs, net zero) by design, not coincidence. Treating government as market-failure fixer rather than market-shaper prevents transformation. We need goal-oriented economy with goals embedded in contracts from the start.

If at best we think of the role of government as fixing a market failure, as opposed to shaping the economy for people and planet, then of course any sort of policy will fail because it doesn't actually lead to transformation.

Is it about measuring goals or not being distracted?

Francine Lacqua

Mariana Mazzucato

The goal during COVID wasn't the vaccine, it was ensuring everyone who wanted vaccination could get it. That depends on how we produce. We produce badly then try to correct market failure later.

The book is all about how do we produce with good at the center, so we don't then produce badly and then think that we can just correct the market failure later.

Do we have good quality politicians and civil servants to push this through? China has long-term planning with top civil service.

Francine Lacqua

Mariana Mazzucato

Lack of capacity is due to choices to outsource and consultify government. Deloitte got paid £1.5M/day for test and trace during COVID instead of investing in civil service. UK has been underinvesting on both public and private sides.

The reason the subtitle 'the infantilization of government' was used was because a Tory Lord called it out. He said in Brexit and in COVID, we ended up outsourcing all the tasks.

Is this why Labour is failing? Temperament problem of the Prime Minister?

Francine Lacqua

Mariana Mazzucato

UK has a particular ideological problem. Labour said 'business-friendly' instead of 'work with business to solve problems'. We socialize risks and privatize rewards. France made Air France support conditional on carbon reduction; UK gave £600M to easyJet with no conditions.

What does 'business friendly' even mean? Does it mean to give Palantir all the NHS data? As opposed to asking what can we do to actually achieve really bold health outcomes with well-designed contracts that preserve privacy?

Is it the quality of politicians?

Francine Lacqua

Mariana Mazzucato

Most politicians I meet aren't corrupt, but if you don't come in with strategy and vision to catalyze investment, that's a problem. UK is 28th in OECD for private sector investment. Many businesses make profits but don't reinvest.

If you come in with good ideas, which I think the government had, but without enough gusto and conviction to really go after those goals, then it's going to be hard to reverse a cycle of underinvestment.

Who gets it right? Is there a country or partnership?

Francine Lacqua

Mariana Mazzucato

The book focuses on places - community centers, public squares, libraries, pools. Also global South voices in Bretton Woods institutions. Key concept is pre-distribution: get relationships right from the start so you don't have to pick up the mess later.

Indigenous communities in the Amazon have knowledge about hydrological cycles and biodiversity. Why do we have to pay NGOs to come in and do good? Really recognizing the value of people for the value creation they can provide.

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